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Author Topic:   holy poop on a stick!

Dai
P1mp posted 08-10-00 02:42 PM PT (US)
that render looks really good...
I'm wondering tho - are DE using shaders, enviroment mapping or just really detailed textures for those shiny surfaces.
I've heard from an "inside source" (well not really... ) that DE are *only* using enviroment mapping for their shiny surfaces.
Env. mapping is kind of a "low end" version of Q3A's shaders and generally won't look as good :/

----------------------------------------- ICQ: 83665327
Raver
P1mp posted 08-10-00 03:25 PM PT (US)
So are these forums working again? great!
It looks like they're using really detailed textures with enviroment mapping over top. For metallic surfaces, this would look just as good or better (most likely the latter) then Q3 shaders. For other types of surfaces that Q3 shaders handle, we'll have to wait and see what DE has in store.
Unless of course, *the* inside source would care to shed any light on the subject. Any comments obesewhale? :)
Dai
P1mp posted 08-10-00 03:37 PM PT (US)
shaders are better than env. mapping -- just so that is clear :P

----------------------------------------- ICQ: 83665327
ObeseWhale
Big Cheese posted 08-10-00 05:38 PM PT (US)
I asked Pancho about this and, well, let me quote... "Steve is putting a lot of effort in getting these 'shaders/effects' to look stunning.. Already some of those efforts look amazing."
Definately what I saw at DE looked way cooler than what q3 had, the reflections were MUCH more realistic, some of them looked perfectly metallic, sort of rusty reflections... As for whether their renderer uses shaders, I'm pretty sure there's some sort of extra support for alpha channels, but I'll fire of an email to Steve!

All fish are created equal, but whales are more equal than others.
Dai
P1mp posted 08-10-00 05:48 PM PT (US)
ok.. what I heard was that DE got env. mapping up and running in something like 3 hours when they started work on DS - so it might just have been a test or "sketch" that they did early on.
Normal env. mapping isn't more impressive than the unreal shield-belt effect btw...
or so I've heard.

----------------------------------------- ICQ: 83665327
TossMonkey
P1mp posted 08-11-00 02:01 PM PT (US)
Mmmmmmmm renders!!
The render looks purdy but what a shame about what *isnt* going on in the shot! dagnabbit I thought DE had something big lined up for us :(

"Well... Your damned if you do and your damned if you don't"
S Sinclair
3D Programmer (DE) posted 08-12-00 04:26 PM PT (US)
I guess you could call what we're doing 'shaders'. Essentially the 'shaders' in q3 control texture blending and texture coordinate generation-straight from their OpenGL commands... we are using these sorts of techniques in Dark Sector.
As for environment mapping being a "low end" version of a shader... environment mapping is a texture coordinate generation technique - one of the coolest looking ones as it is view dependent (Several characters in Half-Life had this).
So you can expect to see procedural texture coordinate generation, multi-pass texturing as well as fancy blending mode tricks.

-Steve
Dai
P1mp posted 08-13-00 05:47 AM PT (US)
*aaaaaaaahh...* :)

----------------------------------------- ICQ: 83665327
ObeseWhale
Big Cheese posted 08-13-00 07:53 PM PT (US)
Don't you love how programmers do that :)? Hehehe, we all now feel just a little bit dumber.

All fish are created equal, but whales are more equal than others.
Teef
Big Cheese posted 08-13-00 08:13 PM PT (US)
I don't feel dumb at all, I am glad steve could tell us some of the things they are trying to accomplish in the game...it's very nice to know.

IF you could only be one thing in life, Be a Teef
Mr Humble
P1mp posted 08-14-00 05:59 AM PT (US)
Now I'll go and say that to my friends so they think that I know that much about programing.

Webmaster of Sector of Darkness - http://www.sod.gameseek.com
Nitrax
P1mp posted 08-25-00 04:27 PM PT (US)
I know this seams a really dumb question but what 'render' are we talking about here.
Sorry, forget that.
[Edited by Nitrax (08-25-00)]

Boyakasha!!!
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Author	Topic: holy poop on a stick!
Dai P1mp	posted 08-10-00 02:42 PM PT (US) that render looks really good... I'm wondering tho - are DE using shaders, enviroment mapping or just really detailed textures for those shiny surfaces. I've heard from an "inside source" (well not really... ) that DE are only using enviroment mapping for their shiny surfaces. Env. mapping is kind of a "low end" version of Q3A's shaders and generally won't look as good :/ ----------------------------------------- ICQ: 83665327
Raver P1mp	posted 08-10-00 03:25 PM PT (US) So are these forums working again? great! It looks like they're using really detailed textures with enviroment mapping over top. For metallic surfaces, this would look just as good or better (most likely the latter) then Q3 shaders. For other types of surfaces that Q3 shaders handle, we'll have to wait and see what DE has in store. Unless of course, the inside source would care to shed any light on the subject. Any comments obesewhale? :)
Dai P1mp	posted 08-10-00 03:37 PM PT (US) shaders are better than env. mapping -- just so that is clear :P ----------------------------------------- ICQ: 83665327
ObeseWhale Big Cheese	posted 08-10-00 05:38 PM PT (US) I asked Pancho about this and, well, let me quote... "Steve is putting a lot of effort in getting these 'shaders/effects' to look stunning.. Already some of those efforts look amazing." Definately what I saw at DE looked way cooler than what q3 had, the reflections were MUCH more realistic, some of them looked perfectly metallic, sort of rusty reflections... As for whether their renderer uses shaders, I'm pretty sure there's some sort of extra support for alpha channels, but I'll fire of an email to Steve! All fish are created equal, but whales are more equal than others.
Dai P1mp	posted 08-10-00 05:48 PM PT (US) ok.. what I heard was that DE got env. mapping up and running in something like 3 hours when they started work on DS - so it might just have been a test or "sketch" that they did early on. Normal env. mapping isn't more impressive than the unreal shield-belt effect btw... or so I've heard. ----------------------------------------- ICQ: 83665327
TossMonkey P1mp	posted 08-11-00 02:01 PM PT (US) Mmmmmmmm renders!! The render looks purdy but what a shame about what isnt going on in the shot! dagnabbit I thought DE had something big lined up for us :( "Well... Your damned if you do and your damned if you don't"
S Sinclair 3D Programmer (DE)	posted 08-12-00 04:26 PM PT (US) I guess you could call what we're doing 'shaders'. Essentially the 'shaders' in q3 control texture blending and texture coordinate generation-straight from their OpenGL commands... we are using these sorts of techniques in Dark Sector. As for environment mapping being a "low end" version of a shader... environment mapping is a texture coordinate generation technique - one of the coolest looking ones as it is view dependent (Several characters in Half-Life had this). So you can expect to see procedural texture coordinate generation, multi-pass texturing as well as fancy blending mode tricks. -Steve
Dai P1mp	posted 08-13-00 05:47 AM PT (US) aaaaaaaahh... :) ----------------------------------------- ICQ: 83665327
ObeseWhale Big Cheese	posted 08-13-00 07:53 PM PT (US) Don't you love how programmers do that :)? Hehehe, we all now feel just a little bit dumber. All fish are created equal, but whales are more equal than others.
Teef Big Cheese	posted 08-13-00 08:13 PM PT (US) I don't feel dumb at all, I am glad steve could tell us some of the things they are trying to accomplish in the game...it's very nice to know. IF you could only be one thing in life, Be a Teef
Mr Humble P1mp	posted 08-14-00 05:59 AM PT (US) Now I'll go and say that to my friends so they think that I know that much about programing. Webmaster of Sector of Darkness - http://www.sod.gameseek.com
Nitrax P1mp	posted 08-25-00 04:27 PM PT (US) I know this seams a really dumb question but what 'render' are we talking about here. Sorry, forget that. [Edited by Nitrax (08-25-00)] Boyakasha!!!