| This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted. |
Shout/ICE plugin! (Score:1)
by tweder on Wednesday November 10, @03:45PM EST (#1)
(User Info) http://porteighty.net/
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We need a plugin to make Xmms a shoutcast server!
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Re:Shout/ICE plugin! (Score:1)
by slashdot-terminal on Wednesday November 10, @05:27PM EST (#52)
(User Info) http://www.debian.org
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Maybe I am either an idiot or cannot afford multiple OC3 lines and $30,000 worth of hardware and a neural communications link but what is shoutcast?
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. - George Orwell, "1984", 1948 If you want a picture of the future, |
Re:Shout/ICE plugin! (Score:1)
by aphr0 (imagayman@remove.hotmail.com) on Wednesday November 10, @06:10PM EST (#73)
(User Info) |
To quote http://www.shoutcast.com/...
SHOUTcast is Nullsoft's Winamp-based distributed streaming audio system. Now you can listen to live streaming audio, and even broadcast your own SHOUTcast station from the comfort of your regular Internet connection.
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details link (Score:1)
by Lutz (urc8@rz.DO_NOT_SPAM_ME.uni-karlsruhe.de) on Wednesday November 10, @03:50PM EST (#3)
(User Info) |
Fix it... Would be less confusing then...
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great (Score:1)
by Kyobu on Wednesday November 10, @03:51PM EST (#5)
(User Info) http://www.cryogen.com/kyobu/
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This is great. Winamp has so many cool plugins, and although I love XMMS, I often wish it had some better eye candy. I wonder if there's any way Winamp plugins could be used through winelib?
"Quod" est quod est quod est "quod." Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. |
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Re:great (Score:2)
by Yarn (yarn@b0rk.co.uk) on Wednesday November 10, @04:11PM EST (#22)
(User Info) http://www.b0rk.co.uk/columns.php3?author=yarn
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I think it'd be hard. Not only do you have the windows/linux transation, but you also have the ways that xmms talks to plugins vs the ways winamp does.
Not gonna happen soon, I think.
-Yarn |
Actually... (Score:1)
by Ian Schmidt (ischmidt@cfl.xuS-mapS.rr.com) on Wednesday November 10, @05:10PM EST (#37)
(User Info) |
I've been considering doing just that given the VQF plugin that uses WineLib. XMMS and Winamp's plugin interfaces are ridiculously similar - XMMS just renames all the functions so AOL won't sue them :)
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Re:great (Score:1, Informative)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @04:34PM EST (#30)
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Actually, the VQF plugin for xmms was accomplished through winelib (and is in fact the winamp plugin I think). I haven't tried it myself yet, though.
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Re:great (Score:1)
by slashdot-terminal on Wednesday November 10, @05:32PM EST (#65)
(User Info) http://www.debian.org
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Why are plugins necessary for sound? If you add random effects to the sound then the sound will have changed it's quality. Are they for quality control?
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. - George Orwell, "1984", 1948 If you want a picture of the future, |
Re:great (Score:1)
by Kyobu on Wednesday November 10, @06:52PM EST (#81)
(User Info) http://www.cryogen.com/kyobu/
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XMMS plugins, as far as I know, are used for two things. One is to modify the program so that it can read certain formats. Ice/shoutcast, VQF, .wav, .mod, .mid, .ram are examples (the lst three don't exist yet AFAIK, but there's no reason they couldn't. The other (and more interesting, in my opinion) is to make pretty pictures. XMMS already has one called Blur Scope, and there are some others, which mostly reqire OpenGL. Winamp has some awesome ones.
"Quod" est quod est quod est "quod." Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. |
Re:great (Score:1)
by Kyobu on Wednesday November 10, @06:55PM EST (#83)
(User Info) http://www.cryogen.com/kyobu/
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Actually, a MIDI plugin does exist. Sorry. I meant to say MOD and RAM don't exist.
"Quod" est quod est quod est "quod." Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. |
Re:great (Score:1)
by Crocodile on Thursday November 11, @01:01AM EST (#109)
(User Info) http://www.xmms.org
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MOD does exist using the mikmod input plugin. RAM does not exist hehe :=)
Crocodile - xmms staff |
Re:great (Score:1)
by Kyobu on Thursday November 11, @11:22PM EST (#120)
(User Info) http://www.cryogen.com/kyobu/
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I should never have said anything, huh?
"Quod" est quod est quod est "quod." Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. |
Re:great (Score:1)
by Wah (t h e w a h @ uswest . net) on Wednesday November 10, @05:38PM EST (#66)
(User Info) http://wahcentral.net
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sonique has some tripped out ones too (and way cooler skins). Great for that NT box at work or if your lava lamp is on the fritz and you need something to stare at.
also by far the easiest plugin scheme I've seen, very well done.
if ignorance is bliss, is omniscience hell? |
Re:great (Score:1)
by int (void@wishes.net) on Wednesday November 10, @07:27PM EST (#87)
(User Info) http://lost.wishes.net
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If you're using gnome, checkout VSA for a plugin based visualization applet, works for anything that uses esound.
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Flash? (Score:1)
by Starselbrg (peterthatcher@yahoo.com) on Wednesday November 10, @03:52PM EST (#6)
(User Info) |
| Did anyone else get hit with a flash-only site? What's up with that? Stick to real standards man!
Ignore the man behind the kernel, I am the great OS!
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Yo.. Miss the article on the browser stuff!?! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @04:11PM EST (#23)
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This is why linux for desktop is doomed if someone doesn't create a descent browser. BTW, just get the plugin, worked fine for me, or just and start that *other* os on your system.
Don't wine about standards, get used to this stuff. You haven't seen anything yet now that Microsoft will be dictating what the web runs (re: netscape's demise).
Gentlemen, start your flame throwers!
0.02$
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Re:Yo.. Miss the article on the browser stuff!?! (Score:1)
by slashdot-terminal on Wednesday November 10, @05:15PM EST (#41)
(User Info) http://www.debian.org
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Just how? All people have to do is to reverse engineer the protocols or emulate them and presto! instant copliance.
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. - George Orwell, "1984", 1948 If you want a picture of the future, |
Re:Yo.. Miss the article on the browser stuff!?! (Score:1)
by NaCh0 on Wednesday November 10, @05:28PM EST (#54)
(User Info) |
| Just how? All people have to do is to reverse engineer the protocols or emulate them and presto! instant copliance. Yep, just like the DVD guys. You can see how great that worked out. Luckily the shockwave folks were serious about their technology and made a linux plugin. I applaude their efforts.
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Re:Flash? Netscape has a flash plugin (Score:1)
by ChiefArcher (brian@NOSPAM-REMOVE.gannon.com) on Wednesday November 10, @04:22PM EST (#27)
(User Info) http://brian.gannon.com
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We have a flash plugin for Linux Netscape.. I actually use it and it's not buggy at all. The site actually looked pretty cool in flash Chief Archer
Like Cheep Books? |
Re:Flash? (Score:1)
by myconid (myconid@sover.net) on Wednesday November 10, @05:00PM EST (#36)
(User Info) http://www.myconid.com
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What "standards" are thoes? All the ones Netscape 4.7 doesn't support yet? CSS2..
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
New and Improved (?) Webpage |
nifty (Score:2, Insightful)
by miahrogers (jeremiah@widomaker.com) on Wednesday November 10, @03:53PM EST (#7)
(User Info) http://www.widomaker.com/~otis
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with all the cool winamp plugins out there this should hopefully get xmms some cool plugins. For one of my friends xmms maybe a killer app to let him move to linux. He's one of those people who obessses over mp3s. this would make it easier for him and others to move to linux.
matisse:~$ cat .sig
cat: .sig: No such file or directory |
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Re:nifty (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 11, @02:30AM EST (#114)
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Ever tried gqmpeg?? The skins-support just sux in xmms...
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The XMMS team is doing a great job. (Score:1)
by Catatonic Dismay on Wednesday November 10, @03:55PM EST (#8)
(User Info) |
I would like to congratulate the fellows working on XMMS and 4front for their support. They really are doing a great thing by supporting a good open source media player. I like that they are bringing other players in to the scene with plugins for proprietry code. They just recently changed the license to allow binary only plugins and this is a good thing.. just like how you can do it with Linux kernel modules.
To the other person who said they wanted a plugin to broadcast icecast streams.. uhh that's pretty ridiculous. That is what icecast is supposed to do and I don't see any real point in that. It is gpl ( or atleast generally free ). XMMS can already play (ice|shout)cast streams well, and that's what it is, a media player!
rm -rf ~/.signature |
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Re:The XMMS team is doing a great job. (Score:2, Informative)
by jsewell on Wednesday November 10, @04:59PM EST (#35)
(User Info) |
To the other person who said they wanted a plugin to broadcast icecast streams.. uhh that's pretty ridiculous.
Having recently set up an icecast server, I think I know what that other guy is talking about. I think he was looking for some way to use XMMS as a more "user friendly" front end to produce an MP3 audio stream for icecast.
As it is right now, actually producing the audio stream for icecast to serve out to the world is something of a black art (IMO).
Your 3 choices are:
First option - shout: Easiest to get running, but less flexible. It only allows you to stream your MP3s at the same bitrate they were encoded at. In other words, no real-time re-encoding.
If you want to stream the same audio at several bitrates (to give people with slower connections an option of lower quality but less skipping), you need to be able to re-encode the MP3 data on the fly. You also need re-time re-encoding if your source MP3s were encoded at different bitrates and you want to give one consistent bitrate for your stream. (this would be a good idea, since some players get out of sync if you change the bitrate within the stream)
Second option - liveice: Much more flexible but a bear to set up. It allows you to re-encode real time, and manipulate the playlist, mix tracks together, and do more of the things you hear on over the air radio.
The complexity comes from the "modular" nature of the software. There are license restrictions on the MP3 encoding algorithm, so there can't legally be any GPL encoders. This means that Scott Manley can't include MP3 encoding code directly in his program. He has to rely on the encoding coming from an external source, such as a commercial encoding package like Xing or from one of the "underground" packages like LAME that are simple wrappers around the unoptimized MP3 reference encoder.
Since most people doing icecast servers want to keep things open source, they aren't very well going to pay hundreds of dollars for a commercial encoder. That leaves the "underground" packages.
There are several packages available for Linux to encode MP3, but the stability, audio quality, and program interface varies widely among them. Scott usually has a tough task getting his code and somebody else's to play nice.
I had such a difficult and unreliable experience trying to get an encoder to run, produce decent sound, and not crash with liveice that I eventually abandoned it and used shout. I manually re-encoded my MP3s at 24kbps and I just stream them statically. They say doing that usually produces better audio quality anyway.
BTW, I'm fully prepared to concede my inablility to get liveice running stems from my own incompetence and NOT from flaws in Linux or mistakes of the icecast developers. YMMV...
Third option - Winamp with DSP Plugin: Believe it or not, there are people who keep a Windoze machine around just to produce a stream to the icecast server.
For all it's shortcomings, M$ has done one nice thing in its life and that is pay for a distribution licence for the Fraunhofer MP3 codec. Fraunhofer is acknowledged to be the most efficient, stable, and best sounding MP3 codec around. M$ included it in the Windows Media Player server tools/authoring package which you can download for free.
What you do is, you get that MS package, winamp, and a Shoutcast DSP plugin that re-directs the MP3 output to an IP address/port you specify, and configure the bitrate and audio quality all from a nice user friendly dialog box. Then you load up your winamp playlists and you are "on the air", with less hassle than liveice. (unless you consider rebooting a crashing Doze box every few hours or days a hassle...)
So what I think the other guy was looking for is some way to make XMMS give similar functionality and user-friendliness to what winamp provides under the windows platform, except provide it with the stability and performace of linux, and license it under the GPL.
I think the functionality can certainly be written by somebody, we have a lot of real smart developers in the open source world and XMMS/icecast in particular. The tough nut is going to be a high quality, free MP3 encoder.
The best option would be a freely distributable version of the Fraunhofer encoder for Linux. This could actaully be done, the only barrier is money. It costs MEGABUCKS (several thousands) for a distribution license from Fraunhofer, and the result would not be possible to put under GPL since the algorithm iself has license and NDA restrictions. So the best we could do is get a binary only encoder that would only run on whatever distribution and platform it was compiled for, and we'd have to find a charitible sugar daddy to pay for the license. And we would still have to hold our noses and accept a non-GPL solution.
BTW, if anybody cares, my icecast server is online at http://24.5.234.110:8000. I have several hours worth of Dave Matthews Band live show bootlegs up there. If you're a DMB fan, giv it a listen sometime. [/me hunkers down for the /. effect...]
-James
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Re:The XMMS team is doing a great job. (Score:1)
by z4ce on Wednesday November 10, @05:12PM EST (#39)
(User Info) |
Hrmn, I thought mp3enc was available from fraunhofer for linux. I'm not posative.. but I'm almost sure it is. Xing has their mp3 encoder for linux, and then there is LAME (LAME Ain't An MP3 Encoder) that uses the Gpyschoauctic mp3 engine, which I find to be comparable to Fraunhofer.
Ian.
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Re:The XMMS team is doing a great job. (Score:1)
by jsewell on Wednesday November 10, @05:24PM EST (#49)
(User Info) |
The free version of mp3enc is a time-limited demo and not suitable for production use.
Xing did some really wacky stuff with pipe I/O in their latest release that broke Scott's liveice code spectacularly.
As for LAME, it was the best candidate I could find for an encoder, but still not suitable for my needs. Unfourtunately for me, I wanted to encode at fairly low bitrates (24 or 32 kbps) so I could serve modem users. LAME seemed to produce really bad, hissy, scratchy audio with a nasty spike around 11 KHz. It didn't matter what I did with settings, I never could clean it up.
I eventually gave up on liveice and just re-encoded my MP3s for shout.
This was back in June or July of this year that I was setting this stuff up, so maybe there have been advances since then, I don't know.
YMMV,
-James
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In the spirit of open source? (Score:2, Interesting)
by Denor (reo8@antispam.hotmail.com) on Wednesday November 10, @03:55PM EST (#9)
(User Info) http://www.egr.msu.edu/~ostran14
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I think it's a good thing that XMMS got a sponsor for their contest so they could give away some prizes. However, the whole XMMS contest reminds me of the recent Loki Hack contest - with one major difference: Loki's games weren't open source.
My question is this: Should an open source project need something like a contest to get people to develop? My understanding of open-source projects is that those who are interested in contributing do so. That would lead me to the conclusion that nobody would enter the contest that wasn't already contributing to XMMS. Say, for instance, someone who was previously contributing to XMMS wins the contest and gets a prize. Does this person go on to code for free, forgetting the momentary gain? Perhaps - I'd like to think I would. Of course, I might also just go out and look for another contest to get prizes from. After all, I'm still contributing to open source, just not XMMS anymore.
What does everyone else think? Is this a trend in 'commercializing' (as far as such a thing is possible) open source, or just an innocent contest blown a bit out of proportion?
-Denor |
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Re:In the spirit of open source? (Score:1)
by Catatonic Dismay on Wednesday November 10, @04:02PM EST (#15)
(User Info) |
It's a good thing. Hell, people will get a better player in the least. Me personally if I got interested and learned the plugin API and whatnot, after learning it I would think about writing more. Why learn it and only write one plugin when you can write multiple better ones after that ? Anything that encourages open source development is good in my book.
rm -rf ~/.signature |
Re:In the spirit of open source? (Score:1)
by Christopher Bibbs on Wednesday November 10, @04:06PM EST (#17)
(User Info) http://www.mdlug.org/
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There are lots of reasons for contributing to an Open Source project. Scratching an itch, fame, money, or just a way to spend some time are all valid reasons. Paying someone to work on Open Source (whether via a regular paycheck or a prize for the best job) is just another way of getting things done. IMHO, Open Source isn't about free love and helping your fellow man, it's just a really good way to develop software. (Peer review is a Good Thing).
On the otherhand, I'm a paid developer, so maybe I have a bias on this issue. (And yes, I have contributed to Open Source before).
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Re:In the spirit of open source? (Score:1)
by eomir on Wednesday November 10, @04:40PM EST (#31)
(User Info) |
These contests don't break the spirit of open source in my opinion. All they really do is create publicity, and give people more of a reason to develop for YOUR project. As to whether or not an open source project should need something like this to get developers, I do not pretend to know. However, I do know that doing something like this does get developers. Hey, it might even spark a few of those propriety fellows to contribute.
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Re:In the spirit of open source? (Score:1)
by bagel on Wednesday November 10, @07:14PM EST (#85)
(User Info) |
I believe people contribute to the open source movement for 2 major reasons:
1. for the good of society
2. recognition among other geeks.
It's always cool to tell your mates that you win some contest and I don't there's anything wrong with that.
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DJ plugin! (Score:1)
by ywwg (ywwg@NOSPAM!.usa.net) on Wednesday November 10, @03:55PM EST (#10)
(User Info) http://ywwg.dhs.org
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Someone needs to write a plugin that can allow DJs to use mp3s under linux. Features needed are things like pitch control and jumping forward and back in time. I don't know how bad the latency is, but there are existing plugins for WinAmp.
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xfades too (Score:1)
by snorks on Wednesday November 10, @05:15PM EST (#40)
(User Info) |
Can winamp plugins do this?
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Re:DJ plugin! (Score:2)
by kijiki on Wednesday November 10, @05:42PM EST (#68)
(User Info) |
AlsaPlayer is a varispeed mp3 player. It can even play mp3's backwards at variable speed. A quick hack on that would make an excellent DJ mp3 player. It can also play CDs forwards and backwards at anyspeed. Its an excellent package.
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Re:DJ plugin! (Score:1)
by syntax on Wednesday November 10, @09:10PM EST (#90)
(User Info) |
You might want to try to use TerminatorX (check at freshmeat). Allows you to scratch mp3's with each other, and I think it's audiofile/esd compliant.
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Woohoo! (Score:1)
by Dr. Sp0ng (spong@SPAM.glue.SUCKS.umd.edu) on Wednesday November 10, @03:59PM EST (#11)
(User Info) http://www.wam.umd.edu/~spong/
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Maybe now I'll get off my ass and finish the OpenGL visualization plugin I started awhile back... I really don't care about the prizes (although another sound card would be nice... my Alpha's kinda quiet :-) And I really could give a flying fsck about an OSS license. Who needs licenses when you have GPL'ed sound drivers? :-)
"Software is like sex- the best is for free"
-Linus Torvalds
Finger spong+@glue.umd.edu for public key. |
Sound effects and psycoacustic compression (Score:1)
by abach (abachATstofanet.dk) on Wednesday November 10, @04:00PM EST (#12)
(User Info) |
I hope people concentrate om making plugins for
not yet supported soundformats.
Try to take a mp3 compressed song and turn the
bass almost of. Then try the same with your
original CD. No doubt the CD sound is richer.
My point is. The sound effects only sounds good
when the music isn't psycoacustic compressed like
mp3.
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how long till they charge for xmms (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @04:01PM EST (#13)
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i miss it being x11amp before 4front took over... those bastards charge like $20 for binary only driver and call it _open_ sound system... look on their website the xmms plugin costs $10 , have they lost their fucking mind?
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Re:how long till they charge for xmms (Score:4, Informative)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @04:05PM EST (#16)
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We will NEVER charge for XMMS.. The reason we charge for the plugin is the fact that we licensed the stuff from QSound. Peter Alm (peter@xmms.org)
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Re:how long till they charge for xmms (Score:1)
by ashuntwo (a-huntwork@uchicago.edu) on Wednesday November 10, @04:06PM EST (#18)
(User Info) |
Uhhh...xmms is gpl'ed. I think that means the current code will forever be free. Maybe new stuff could conceivably be charged for, but in their little irc conference, the xmms people said 1.0 would definitely be free. I have no intention of debating what they meant by "free", but I imagine they meant "GPL". Also, the file plugins.h or whatever the plugin api is based on is no longer GPL, so anyone can write their own for profit module. I consider this a Good Thing, but I bet someone will disagree with me.
Andrew Huntwork a-huntwork@uchicago.edu |
Re:how long till they charge for xmms (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @07:12PM EST (#84)
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Doesn't work like that; if you dynamic-link one program against another, and one of those programsis GPLed, then the whole thing must be released under GPL. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but there was a big stink about BeOS using GIMP plug-ins (which is different 'cause GIMP "plug-ins" are really standalone executables that use a shared memory mechanism).
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iQ costs, but it's worth it (Score:1)
by ashuntwo (a-huntwork@uchicago.edu) on Wednesday November 10, @04:01PM EST (#14)
(User Info) |
The new plugin they just announced costs $10, but I just tried the demo version, and it's definitely worth it. Also, some of the proceeds go to xmms development, and I think that's not too bad.
Andrew Huntwork a-huntwork@uchicago.edu |
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Re:iQ costs, but it's worth it (Score:1)
by Jethro (jethro-sd@yaron.org) on Wednesday November 10, @04:07PM EST (#20)
(User Info) http://www.binary.net/jethro/
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> The new plugin they just announced costs $10,
> but I just tried the demo version,
> and it's definitely worth it
I totally agree with you. Now if only they could get the Buy Online thing to work. I tried it and it gave a File Not Found after making me fill out all the info! Twice!!!
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Re:iQ costs, but it's worth it (Score:1)
by DrFickle on Wednesday November 10, @06:55PM EST (#82)
(User Info) http://pcxtreme.org
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Yeah, but the free Stereo plug-in that comes with XMMS is just about as good.
"The more you run over a deat cat, the flatter it gets" |
XMMS | GLWolfenstein (Score:2, Funny)
by Rorshach on Wednesday November 10, @04:07PM EST (#19)
(User Info) |
I can see it now. Pipe the spectrum analyzer into GLWolfenstein.
Your actions are now dependent on the audio you're playing. Spikes in intensity result in gunfire, changes in frequency alter direction (notes go down, view goes left), and tempo determines speed of movement.
Just think...playing 'The Who' might actually get you through a level!
----------------------------------------------------- kernel-2.3->congeal(NOW); |
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Re:XMMS | GLWolfenstein (Score:3, Interesting)
by Mr_Plow on Wednesday November 10, @05:28PM EST (#56)
(User Info) http://home.san.rr.com/filth
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Interestingly enough, reminds me of a project we never finished but should have. A friend of mine and I bought a program called Super Collider, a real-time synthesis engine for the Mac. It's totally programmable (kind of like CSound on crack) and can interpret MIDI data and mouse movements. We tried to get it to run with Doom II. We programmed it to accept keyboard and mouse input and to change timbre and tempo based on the frequency of the input (interpret mouse click as firing a weapon, assume that increased firing means increase in play intesity.) The program could accept the input even in the background. We just never got the music to seamlessly change tempos or timbres. Sounded too choppy.
----------------------------------------------------------
Better living through auditory saturation. |
The eternal xmms plugin question... (Score:4, Interesting)
by Capt Dan (BobDean150@excite.com) on Wednesday November 10, @04:10PM EST (#21)
(User Info) |
So to sum up what hundereds of poor would be plugin writers have asked in the past...
Where's the docs? How about a plugin tutorial/guide? (in xmms's defense I just checked out winamp's page where it states: "COMING SOON: Plug-in tutorial")
I would bet that there are a number of people out there excited about the contest, but are missing the basic information to give their learning curve a swift kick in the @$$.
There is limited time for this contest when you toss in school and work, and that time is much shorter still if we have to go decipher the xmms code base... The plugin.h file linked from the contest page won't cut it. An architecture doc would be excellent.
For example allow me explain a problem I had the other week. (begin whining...)
Say I want to run multiple xmms sessions that are outputing to a software pcm mixer (esound, dbfsd, whichever you choose), and you want each xmms session to control its own output volume. The math is easy. As the input cojmes into the plugin, adjust the sample amplitude by some percentage. But, due to output buffering etc, the volume change becomes audible after a 3-4 second delay. Ideally the change should be immeadiate. Going through someone elses code to derive the architecture behind what is occuring is painful and time consuming...
"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2
"It was like trying to herd cats..." - Robert A. Heinlein
"Quack?" - a duck |
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Re:There is a .h file! (Score:1)
by ChiefArcher (brian@NOSPAM-REMOVE.gannon.com) on Wednesday November 10, @04:20PM EST (#26)
(User Info) http://brian.gannon.com
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There's a plugin.h file on the page showing the functions and structures you need to use. Chief Archer
Like Cheep Books? |
the header file is not enough (Score:1)
by Capt Dan (BobDean150@excite.com) on Wednesday November 10, @04:30PM EST (#29)
(User Info) |
defining the structures is all well and good...
But to learn how to *use* the structures requires deciphering somebody elses code. Multiple Hours of coding vs. an hour of doc reading.
"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2
"It was like trying to herd cats..." - Robert A. Heinlein
"Quack?" - a duck |
Re:The eternal xmms plugin question... (Score:1)
by slashdot-terminal on Wednesday November 10, @05:25PM EST (#50)
(User Info) http://www.debian.org
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How does one gain the ability to seemingly be able to do anything interesting with hardware without assembly or head banging. How does one get the formal skill to do that?
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. - George Orwell, "1984", 1948 If you want a picture of the future, |
Re:The eternal xmms plugin question... (Score:1)
by Capt Dan (BobDean150@excite.com) on Wednesday November 10, @10:22PM EST (#98)
(User Info) |
1) reading the documentation
2) reading the docs written by other headbangers
3) taking notes while headbanging (experience)
4) headbanging in groups with knowledable help nearby (College level ECE lab courses)
An ECE degree helps, but a lot of knowledge can be learned from just the textbooks. GO to a good ECE schools web page, find a class that seems interesting and read the text for that class. Although you would miss out on the Lab projects...
"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2
"It was like trying to herd cats..." - Robert A. Heinlein
"Quack?" - a duck |
Re:Volume control (Score:1)
by bored on Thursday November 11, @10:55AM EST (#118)
(User Info) |
The trick is to buffer the data yourself and feed it to the output plugin closer to the actual output play time instead of just filling the buffers till they indicate they are full.
I don't imaging that this is any more difficult than what I had to do to get around the buffering provided by the hardware/driver that I was talking to for output purposes. It was really quite easy, although I dumped the whole scheme and worked around a couple of bugs in the driver to just provide an interface to its buffering scheme. The end result is small and seems to be free of bugs.
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OSS as prizes? (Score:4, Interesting)
by bbk on Wednesday November 10, @04:12PM EST (#24)
(User Info) http://www.u.arizona.edu
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Not to burst any bubbles, but OSS isn't that great of a thing... It isn't free, and the free version that is in the kernel has a lot of features removed. I use ALSA for my sound support, and it can do so much more stuff than OSS, such as: - Full duplex support on all cards
- Built in PNP support (runs my AWE64 without ever messing with ISAPNP, unlike OSS)
- Quad speaker support
- Multiple card support (I run a Trident 4DWave and an AWE64 in my system, and both work great)
- Multiple applications opening the same sound device simultaneously (with a card that supports this in hardware)
- Better organization and more configurability - save and restore all your settings for all your cards in one command line
The only things going for OSS now is a slight edge in the number of cards supported. When this is dealt with, I'm all for ditching OSS and moving to ALSA. If you're card is supported by ALSA, try it out - I guarantee you'll like it. It is cool that OSS is supporting the contest though - community support in any form is always nice.
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Re:OSS as prizes? (Score:1)
by Edmund (edmundw@sympatico.ca) on Wednesday November 10, @05:22PM EST (#47)
(User Info) |
Just a matter of curiousity, where the hell did you find a Trident 4DWave to begin with? I wanted to buy one to support Trident since they gave the ALSA project the docs, but I can't for the life of me find a local supplier that has them (Toronto, Ontario, Canada), and I refuse to pay a ridiculous S&H charge by buying online (don't have much money).
NX would be nice... four speaker support...
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Re:OSS as prizes? (Score:2)
by kijiki on Wednesday November 10, @05:32PM EST (#63)
(User Info) |
www.hoontech.com The NX is probably the best card yet for linux. There is an excellent Alsa driver for it (if you haven't tried alsa, do so, its much much better than OSS/Free. www.alsa-project.org).
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Re:Where? (Score:1)
by CmdData (data@startrek.com) on Wednesday November 10, @05:23PM EST (#48)
(User Info) http://www.erac.com
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Where can I get this ALSA? I have never herd of it. However I'm a big spender so I will pay.
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Re:Where? (Score:1)
by bbk on Wednesday November 10, @06:21PM EST (#75)
(User Info) http://www.u.arizona.edu
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www.alsa-project.org
The best supported card for AlSA is the Trident 4DWAVE-NX or DX (NX has quad speaker output). You can get these from www.hoontech.com for $50. It also supports a ton of other cards.
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in response, my OSS views... (Score:3, Interesting)
by Capt Dan (BobDean150@excite.com) on Wednesday November 10, @05:41PM EST (#67)
(User Info) |
Granted i have not tried alsa yet... But I didn't see any reason too.
Last month I shelled out $30 for the OSS license and driver (20 for the base licencse, 10 for each card...)
I ran their install program, it autodetected both my ISA and PCI soundcards. Quite possibly the most(least?) painless of my linux experiences.
As a DJ, I have found their code to be solid and robust when it comes to running and mixing 4+ audio players for over 6 hours at a time. No problems whatsoever.
I look at it this way. Sound support for *nix is what these guys do for a living, nearly every day, of every week, of every year. They were the ones to release Linux sound support years before alsa was a twinkle in someone's eye.
They might not be open source, but they do support a free version of their Intellectual Property, and also monetarially support opensource projects. There's a lot of talk about how to get funding for beneficial opensource projects, and how to get people working on opensource full time. I did my part by sending these boys a check. Monetarially, there's more invested in the rotting leftovers in my fridge.
Honestly, what's $30 compared to the amount you'll spend on computer parts/upgrades/etc over the next two years? You can't get a good game for that amount of money. I found the cost negligable.
As a developer, their API is simple and cross platform. I wrote my own wrappers for it in under an hour, and haven't had need to change them since. Personally, reading the ALSA api makes my eyes hurt.
"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2
"It was like trying to herd cats..." - Robert A. Heinlein
"Quack?" - a duck |
Re:in response, my OSS views... (Score:1)
by bbk on Wednesday November 10, @06:22PM EST (#77)
(User Info) http://www.u.arizona.edu
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OSS has its place, but I trust ALSA more. The main benefits I see of free software are in the areas of security and compatibiliy. Who knows what's in the proprietary OSS? Yeah, it runs, but how many bugs are in it that could crash the kernel? (not to say that is has bugs, but who knows?) Having many eyes look at something (ie if it had freely availible source code) is the best way to ensure that problems don't exist. Money isn't an issue, reliability is.
To correct you - the current kernel version isn't even supported by the 4front - most of the additions and bug fixes come from other kernel developers (mainly Alan Cox).
OSS has always seemed like "baitware" to me - give a version away for free, and then offer a much improved version for sale. In my experience, most people using OSS want it for the PNP functionality, which I doubt OSS will ever release to the public, as it would kill their sales. I don't see how that could be viewed as a positive thing in regards to the rest of the community.
They've also had a bad record of getting card support out, saying that they will release support only to announce later that the card in question will not be supported (mostly higher end cards) I've also heard of hardware manufacturers denying information to other developers because "4front is making a driver under our very restrictive NDA".
I don't have anything against people making a living, but when it impedes others, something isn't right.
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Re:in response, my OSS views... (Score:1)
by Capt Dan (BobDean150@excite.com) on Wednesday November 10, @06:28PM EST (#79)
(User Info) |
All valid comments/points. It really just comes down to a matter of preference.
Maybe they just need to hire more people.
"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2
"It was like trying to herd cats..." - Robert A. Heinlein
"Quack?" - a duck |
Not preference -- it's strategy. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @09:18PM EST (#93)
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| It's more a matter of strategy. When we allow a single supplier to be the only entity that can provide a good, then we get into trouble. This is common with hardware companies. For instance, when Intel provided MMX, Microsoft required that Intel license the technology to competitors. What is great about Linux is that you're not limited to a single supplier for core functionality of the platform. Anyone can fund a team to improve, customize, or fix any component of the operating system. You loose this as soon as you allow a single company to be the only supplier for a portion of the operating system. Projects like ALSA are essential for Linux's future success.
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Re:Not preference -- it's strategy. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @10:15PM EST (#96)
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I completely understand what was just said, but feel that strategy is the wrong word for it. My understanding is that ALSA came about as a direct result of OSS's lack of opensource. Calling it strategy implies that OSS had some influence in the matter. TO the best of my knowledge, they did not. I could be wrong.
What is also great about Linux is that it has low/zero cost of entry, and since it is mostly opensource, economics cannot force a project group out of existence. If Intel had not licensed MMX, how would their competitors have fared?
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Re:in response, my OSS views... (Score:1)
by 4front on Thursday November 11, @01:24AM EST (#110)
(User Info) http://www.opensound.com
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> OSS has always seemed like "baitware" to me -
> give a version away for free, and then offer a
> much improved version for sale.
FYI, OSS in the kernel existed 3 years before 4front was formed. OSS in the kernel was known as Voxware. So the commercial version came AFTER OSS already existed - so how can it be baitware?.
So let me get this right.....sendmail existed as opensource and now it becomes baitware just becuase Sendmail Inc. released Sendmail PRO????
In the same vein, X Windows becomes baitware just becuase XFree is opensource and MetroX and AccelX are commercial "closed source" versions?
According to your definition of baitware, if something is open sourced, there can absolutely be no closed sourced impelementation that exceeds the open source features.
Best regards
Dev Mazumdar
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MIDI support in ALSA? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @11:07PM EST (#101)
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I would like to be able to use the MIDI on my Turtle Beach Malibu as well as my Yamaha SW60XG with ALSA, but I can't seem to make it work. (The SW60 is a MIDI -only, MPU401 compatible card...btw, there is not, to my knowledge, a generic MPU-401 driver for ALSA)
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GEISS (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @04:16PM EST (#25)
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GEISS PLUGIN PLEEEEEEEEASE SOMEONE that's the best plugin for winamp i've ever seen. only reason i still have windows, for real.
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Why should I use XMMS instead of any other player? (Score:2, Insightful)
by heroine (broadcast@earthling.net) on Wednesday November 10, @04:26PM EST (#28)
(User Info) http://freeyellow.com/members4/heroine/
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When I hear the word XMMS I think of mp3 player but I've always used GQMpeg even back when XMMS was still called X11Amp. Sound playback is a pretty basic thing which can be accomplished by hundreds of programs without much issue. It's, well, an mp3 player that, well, plays mp3s. It seems like 4front Technologies is putting a lot of money into this program to turn it into the all-in-one solution for audio but I've yet to see any reason to use it for anything.
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Re:Why should I use XMMS instead of any other play (Score:1)
by Capt Dan (BobDean150@excite.com) on Wednesday November 10, @05:20PM EST (#44)
(User Info) |
Why, plugins of course... Personally I like gqmpeg as well. But xmms plugins allow the ability to add functinality without rewrite the central code base. XMMS has greater inpur format support, and also has greater visualization capabilities. Check out the xmms plugin page for a full list of its capabilities... There are many more than gqmpeg. www.xmms.org
But, hey, if you don't need/want the extra functionality there's no reason to bother. GQmpeg will still take care of you.
"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2
"It was like trying to herd cats..." - Robert A. Heinlein
"Quack?" - a duck |
the free "enhance stereo" vs. iQ??? (Score:2, Insightful)
by plumpy (plumpy@skylab.org) on Wednesday November 10, @04:42PM EST (#32)
(User Info) http://www.skylab.org/~plumpy/
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There is already a free "enhance stereo" (or something) effect plugin that comes with xmms. It works really well, and I like it a lot.
Has anyone used the two for comparison purposes? I don't see why the iQ plugin could be so much better that it's worth $10?
(I'm at work now on an SGI, and I can't get xmms to compile, or else I'd try...)
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Bout time! (Score:2, Informative)
by jeremy f on Wednesday November 10, @04:49PM EST (#33)
(User Info) |
I got razzed in Efnet's #linux chatroom a few days ago for bringing this up, but now seems like the perfect time to say it (and kinda eerily concidental).
There's a plugin for Winamp called DFX. It adds psuedo- hi fidelity sound to MP3 playback. It's demoware in Win9x, but let me just be the first person to say this -- it is INCREDIBLE. The bigger the stereo system, the better it sounds, but it even sounds great on headphones. How about something similar to this for XMMS? If it's done well, it's an almost sure-fire win.
Note: I can't program, or else I'd be one of the first people trying to do this ^_^. Also, for those who want to check out DFX, it's at www.fxsound.com
I'm seriously hoping something BETTER than DFX can be created for linux. OpenGL / Spectrum Analysis / Visual plugins are cool, but you're not listening to music to watch some wavy effects.
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Re:Bout time! Uhhh (Score:2, Informative)
by CmdData (data@startrek.com) on Wednesday November 10, @05:20PM EST (#45)
(User Info) http://www.erac.com
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I just bought and downloaded QSound Plugin for XMMS and it rox. Does what that DFX plugin does and it's for XMMS for Linux.
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Re:Bout time! (Score:1)
by slashdot-terminal on Wednesday November 10, @05:21PM EST (#46)
(User Info) http://www.debian.org
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Tell me how can a larger louder stero sytem enhance actual sound quality or purity? what are the standards for these things besides personal preference.
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. - George Orwell, "1984", 1948 If you want a picture of the future, |
Re:Bout time! (Score:1)
by Capt Dan (BobDean150@excite.com) on Wednesday November 10, @06:24PM EST (#78)
(User Info) |
It has to do with the quality of the playback of the system. For example, speakers can be designed for a certain level of sound output. If the input is less than this level, the speaker does not resonate properly causing noise and distortion to be added in, making the output sound poor, and possibly causing permanent damage to the speaker itself.
personal preference is personal preference. There is not standard.
"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2
"It was like trying to herd cats..." - Robert A. Heinlein
"Quack?" - a duck |
Contest Benefits unforunately greatly inflated. (Score:2, Interesting)
by z4ce on Wednesday November 10, @04:53PM EST (#34)
(User Info) |
Check out This. I hate it when contests act like what they're giving you such a big deal. Value $120 my butt... $40 in 4front software(that actually costs them nothing to distrubate, I'm not saying it's wrong of them to charge, just giving it out in a contest costs them _very_ little.), and a $80 soundcard that's really $18? Heh. I love xmms, and I'm looking forward to the plugins this will bring, but please don't lie to get people participate in contests.
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Re:Contest Benefits unforunately greatly inflated. (Score:1)
by 4front on Wednesday November 10, @05:10PM EST (#38)
(User Info) http://www.opensound.com
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The price of the SBPCI16 we put was basically what we paid for at CompUSA. This is a boxed version and perhaps it's available for cheaper on PriceWatch. We'll ask Creative Labs what the full retail price is.
If the prices have come down, we'll add a cash reward to the contest to make the final prize
come out to $125.00.
Sincere apologies for not doing our homework on prices for SB PCI16s.
Best regards
Dev Mazumdar
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Re:Hey it's okay (Score:1)
by CmdData (data@startrek.com) on Wednesday November 10, @05:18PM EST (#42)
(User Info) http://www.erac.com
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Thanks for explaining this to that guy. I love you guys. BTW, I just bought me a copy of that QSound Plugin and it rocks.
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Re:Contest Benefits unforunately greatly inflated. (Score:1)
by ghazban (ghazban@crosswinds.net) on Thursday November 11, @04:09AM EST (#115)
(User Info) |
$50 cash. Need I say more. That brings the sound card down to a 'reasonable' $30. Lucas
:wq |
On the topic of sound and plugins? (Score:2, Interesting)
by slashdot-terminal on Wednesday November 10, @05:20PM EST (#43)
(User Info) http://www.debian.org
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I have a little theory. In all the hurry what happened to the pc speaker? I have always thought that someone who has much more education than me could code something that would approximate a random sampling of the music then translate the sound to notes and then produce the notes at a specific frequency on the pc speaker. There is a kernel patch that allows .wav's to be kind of send through the speaker in a garbled manner but it dosn't work too good. I have an hp48g calculator and it can produce entire symphonies (Bach I believe) from the sound in the speaker. A remember a program for dos that had files that could create whole songs and the like from the pc speaker but this stuff is conspiciously(sp) absent in linux which should be able to do more.
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. - George Orwell, "1984", 1948 If you want a picture of the future, |
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Re:On the topic of sound and plugins? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @05:43PM EST (#70)
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It's already been done, but you have to patch your kernel for speaker sound support.
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Re:On the topic of sound and plugins? (Score:1)
by rmull on Wednesday November 10, @07:18PM EST (#86)
(User Info) http://www.rpi.edu/~mullr
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There was, once upon a time, a PC Speaker driver for linux - but that was in the 1.2/1.3 days. The PC Speaker and the hardware that drives it is simply too crummy for any music use. Plus, any D/A conversion must be performed in software. It's also mono. And anymore, most everybody has a soundcard.
-------------------------------------------- You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses. -- Ziggy |
Re:On the topic of sound and plugins? (Score:1)
by jfunk (jfunk@roadrunner.nf.net) on Wednesday November 10, @09:07PM EST (#89)
(User Info) http://exnihilo.dhs.org
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I have an hp48g calculator and it can produce entire symphonies (Bach I believe) from the sound in the speaker.
I was impressed by the people who got the serial port on TI-85's to play waves. Some games had sound support.
Now to port XMMS over to the z80 :-)* That's require quite the overclock, plus a biiig memory expander.
Jimmie Funk, doctor of soul. |
How about a comp for updates!? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @05:25PM EST (#51)
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How long has it been since xmms has been updated? They should at least move to a 1.0 release. In generaly, xmms is the best mp3 player I've ever heard. It uses 3% CPU and has insane quality! They really do need more plugings though.
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Re:How about a comp for updates!? (Score:1)
by Dr. Sp0ng (spong@SPAM.glue.SUCKS.umd.edu) on Thursday November 11, @01:45AM EST (#112)
(User Info) http://www.wam.umd.edu/~spong/
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How long has it been since xmms has been updated? They should at least move to a 1.0 release. In generaly, xmms is the best mp3 player I've ever heard. It uses 3% CPU and has insane quality! They really do need more plugings though.
It does sound very good, but it uses a lot more than 3% CPU. The CPU it uses just doesn't show up under 'top' because of the way they do it - all the mp3 decoding/sound card output is handled by plugins, which don't show up in top (I don't know why, though) Awhile back I wrote a little mp3 visualization program, and since I was too lazy to write mp3 decoding code I just had it use X11Amp's plugins (back when it was still X11amp :-) When visualization was turned off it claimed to be using 0.0% of the CPU, which is impossible, regardless of how fast your processor is :-)
"Software is like sex- the best is for free"
-Linus Torvalds
Finger spong+@glue.umd.edu for public key. |
I can't hearr youuuu (Score:2, Interesting)
by Splat on Wednesday November 10, @05:32PM EST (#64)
(User Info) |
Perhaps it's my shoddy soundcard (a Yamaha OPL3SA-2 based card), but I really can't hear anything that great from the "Extra Stereo" plugin and the iQ QSound plugin. I have Altec Lansing ACS44 Speakers (nothing spectacularly great, but sure beats the Rat-Shack tin cans I was using for a while). The QBass makes the bass obscenely large and overpowers the rest of the music. I like some bass, but I'm not one of those people who cranks up the subwoofer all the way. It just sounds ridiculous. With the "Extra Stereo" plugin it does the opposite, and makes the high-end way too overpowering.
I have my two cube speakers about 2 feet in each direction on both sides of my desk, with my subwoofer about 2 feet to my back right, chair in the middle of all of it. I'm not getting any "spatial" effects off either of these plugins. I'm probably "too close" to the speakers to hear that magical third channel which my brains supposed to register as being behind me (not going to happen). They both seem to just muck with the equalizer a little, pump up the high-end and low-end a decibel or two and introduce some echo. Is this supposed to sound "good"?. A friend of mine has a true 4 speaker setup, and this just simply doesn't compare, or even come close - even at $10 or free.
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Re:I can't hearr youuuu (Score:1)
by slashdot-terminal on Wednesday November 10, @05:42PM EST (#69)
(User Info) http://www.debian.org
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maybe it's just me but to me unless there is some form of static music sounds like music sounds like music at the same volume. Is there any real way to tell the difference. What's wrong with the original sound cards. I never really owned one that worked with anything let alone linux.
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. - George Orwell, "1984", 1948 If you want a picture of the future, |
xmms desperately needs a wavetable support plugin (Score:1)
by Travoltus (travoltus@hot.mail.com) on Wednesday November 10, @05:50PM EST (#71)
(User Info) |
Currently for playing mods, xmp whips all over mikmod when you have an AWE card, because it uses the wavetable features. Unfortunately there isn't a 'libxmp' available so porting it over to Mikmod isn't easy, and the mikmod owners seem not to be interested in AWE wavetable support. Bah, mikmod authors just read the stinking xmp code and integrate! sheesh. mikmod is feature-stripped IMO.
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Re:mod player uses wavetable features? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @09:11PM EST (#91)
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How does a mod player use wavetable features? Wavetables are used to play a PCM audio file in place of synthesized MIDI data. There are two reasons this is not feasible for mod files: 1) Mod files already have PCM audio built in - that's why they're better than MIDI, they sound the same on every computer. 2) Mod files have no data the same from song to song. Instrument numbers are the same from MIDI to MIDI (i.e. instrument number 34 is always trumpet or whatever), but there's no similar information the wavetable card could glean from the mod file to know which PCM track to play. You may be confused between 16 bit and 64 bit sound? not sure. but definitely not wavetable.
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Re:mod player uses wavetable features? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @11:50PM EST (#105)
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Its actually wavetable. I used my AWE32 w/ xmp and the sound was incredible. I may be talking out of my ass here.. but I believe what xmp does is upload the MOD samples (instruments) to the wavetable (AWE32 has soundbanks that are configurable) and converts the MOD patterns (notes) to MIDI form (or whatever) and plays the MOD just like a MIDI. What it does is allow the sound card to handle it all rather than use all your CPU so sound is amazingly better quality. And on the plus side you have very little CPU usage.
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Bang goes college for me (Score:1)
by Mel (mel@rmthis.csn.ul.ie) on Wednesday November 10, @06:00PM EST (#72)
(User Info) http://www.csn.ul.ie/~mel
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I worked for a while on a VQF plugin and got it working most of the way (http://www.csn.ul.ie/~mel/projects/linux/vqfplugin). I said I would do the rest - seeking and visualisations during the Christmas. I think I'll drop 4th year and try and win me a sound card instead :-) .
then again.........
maybe I'll just submit it as it is :-/
Vote me if you like VQF's :-))))))))
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OSUE Plugin (Score:2, Funny)
by Dr. Blue on Wednesday November 10, @06:12PM EST (#74)
(User Info) |
I know how to win! How about a plugin to monitor a user's listening habits, and transparently send that information back to a central site that can keep a big database of all user's listening habits?
Why should the commercial people have all of the fun of selling purloined user information? I think it's about time that the open source community got in on the action!
So that's my proposal: the Open Source User Exploitation (OSUE) plugin. Let's act like all those "professionals" out there at commercial software companies!
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WARNING! Danger of plugin 'competition' (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @06:21PM EST (#76)
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The contest (and XMMS for that matter) is sponsered by 4Front, whom has been known for charging $30 OSS sound driver 'tax'. As a result, the XMMS plugins written for entering the competition may ended up being non-open source, and worse, 4Front/XMMS may charge premium just for using the full features of the plug-ins, exploting free labour and so on. Sure, XMMS is in GPL, but by allowing plug-ins to be written under non-GPL licences, there is always a chance that future XMMS will be close to useless without registering all those plug-ins, and the QSound module is only the beginning.
That aside, what about ALSA support? Since ther aren't any reference for ALSA, one must wonder if 4Front has something to do with it.
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Re:WARNING! Danger of plugin 'competition' (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @06:48PM EST (#80)
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| We will never charge ANYTHING for something that we don't have to pay for. Sure, we charge you 10 bucks for the iQ plugin, but that's because the source and the routines were not free for us. We will NEVER EVER charge for a user submitted plugin. Sure, plugin.h does allow closed source plugins, and allows a programmer to charge for his work. But are we the bad guys for allowing that? Plugins made from free source will not be sold buy us. We would never charge for something that's free. That's insane. XMMS is and will always be a GPL player. But, there might be more plugins that will cost money, when XMMS starts supporting video playback there won't be a way to have XMMS to support the latest QuickTime formats, and possibly other formats, since those codecs are not free. We don't decide what's to be free or not, the big companies do. Btw, Alsa works a-ok with the OSS Output plugin. We do not in anyway try to make XMMS oss only. Thomas Nilsson
thomas@xmms.org
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This is unfair (Score:1)
by smartin on Wednesday November 10, @09:18PM EST (#92)
(User Info) |
Just because 4Front charges for the oss drivers does not make them evil. If i'm not mistaken they do also provide freebee drivers for many sound cards. I personally bought the oss drivers because it was the only way to get sound out of my machine. It worked, it was worth $30.
This plugin contest is not about them trying to scam people into writing free code that they intend to sell. It's about providing some insentive to get people to contribute and make xmms a much better thing.
I'd much rather live in the Linux world where people give stuff away up to the point where they need to get money to help make the development work worth while, rather than the windows world where everything is crippled or time bombed shareware.
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Re:This is unfair (Score:2)
by tweek (john@[nospam].lusis.org) on Wednesday November 10, @10:20PM EST (#97)
(User Info) http://www.lusis.org
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Here here!! I paid for a Forefront license as well. I'm not saying this to show off but this rampant IT MUST BE FREE OR ITS CRAP is just stupid and uneducated.
"We hope you find fun and laughter in the new millenium" - Top half of fastfood gamepiece
"Thanks for Playing. Please try again." bottom half of same game |
Re:This is unfair (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 11, @08:13AM EST (#117)
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I don't think people who value in freedom are uneducated.
Drivers could serioously compromise the security of you system. Without the right to make modifications or inspect the source, you are gambling with all the data on your system for the slight amusement of hearing some sounds. ... now that's stupid.
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Re:WARNING! Danger of plugin 'competition' (Score:1)
by 4front on Thursday November 11, @01:34AM EST (#111)
(User Info) http://www.opensound.com
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Did you even read the contest rules?. What it says is that you can write any type of plugin: GPL or closed sourced. If you write GPL, we cannot sell it because it's GPL'ed, if it's closed source you keep your code and you sell your own plugin.
Loki's hack contest was similar but different in the sense that the free hacks help them sell more Civ:CTP games. We aren't selling XMMS - it's GPL'ed for heaven's sakes.
If you don't want to pay for OSS buy SuSE or Turbolinux - these vendors have put an unlocked (no support) version of OSS. If you want support, pay for OSS or use OSS/Free - they work just like the commercial drivers once you get them working. So where's the "OSS TAX" as you call it.
Best regards
Dev Mazumdar
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Good Idea (Score:1)
by SupaFly (supafly69@rocketmail.com) on Wednesday November 10, @08:29PM EST (#88)
(User Info) |
I think the coolest plugin someone could make would be a free implementation of the QSound plugin. Too bad I don't know how to do it :)
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XMMS and RAM (Score:1)
by Zack (zallison@rice.edu.spam) on Wednesday November 10, @09:37PM EST (#94)
(User Info) |
I'd love to use XMMS, but I can't afford the RAM! I've only got about 64 megs or RAM in this box, and XMMS often shows up as taking up as much or more RAM than XFree. Why does an MP3 player take up so much RAM? As it runs it takes up more and more, leading me to beleive in some sort of a memory leak.
I'd much rather use XMMS, but mpg123 works fine and doesn't take up nearly as much memory. I just wish it could do visualization plugins and stuff.
Anyone else experienced this?
-- Zack |
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Re:XMMS and RAM (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @10:47PM EST (#99)
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this does not hurt anything. There is no memory leak in xmms. If you load a big playlist, it will load as much info into ram as possible to allow quick access. However, if you need ram for another app, it will get it and quick. Unused ram is wasted ram. Xmms does not and will not hurt system performance except for the cpu it uses to decoded. Oh, and I'm not a xmms or 4front person. I personally think everyone should just shut the fuck up on and either use the shit or not use the shit. Stop all the damn bitching like a bunch of school girls.
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That's insulting... (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 11, @12:53AM EST (#108)
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...to school girls everywhere.
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Re:XMMS and RAM (Score:1)
by ghazban (ghazban@crosswinds.net) on Wednesday November 10, @11:58PM EST (#106)
(User Info) |
Make your buffer smaller dammit! Look in the preferences and change the buffer size for the sound driver.. It'll make the amount of ram xmms uses _far_ less. I use xmms and it works perfectly on my machine with a measly 32 mb ram, so stop complaining :-)
:wq |
Re:XMMS and RAM (Score:1)
by Mel (mel@rmthis.csn.ul.ie) on Thursday November 11, @05:30AM EST (#116)
(User Info) http://www.csn.ul.ie/~mel
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It's on their FAQ what is happening. XMMS doesn't take up that much memory at all. Every thread shows up as taking 5 megs giving a total of 30 megs or so. In reality, it's only using 5 because it's all shared.
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Python Plugin (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @10:14PM EST (#95)
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Now that XChat has a python plugin, why doesn't
someone write a python plugin so we can run
xmms/python scripts into Grail applets. This
would be really cool.
-Posted with Grail
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One question (Score:0)
by warmi on Thursday November 11, @12:46AM EST (#107)
(User Info) |
Why XMMS uses GTK ??
Just to use file requester I have to install all this stuff ?
Pointless ..
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Great program, great plugin (Score:1)
by ZioPino on Thursday November 11, @02:11AM EST (#113)
(User Info) |
I'm impressed, XMMS is a pleasure to use and the IQ plugin is so good I bought it after listening to the trial version for 5 minutes.
Great job guys, thanks so much.
--Paolo
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Re:Great program, great plugin (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 11, @08:43PM EST (#119)
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I also am more than impressed with the plugin... but for some reason I can't do anything in X without the sound output skipping... such as move a scrollbar, hit back on netscape... etc. Is this a XMMS problem or iQfx? At any rate, it sounds fantastic.
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Re:i will win (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @05:28PM EST (#55)
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sound is unnecessary2
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Re:i will win (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @05:29PM EST (#57)
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sound is unnecessary3
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Re:i will win (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @05:29PM EST (#58)
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sound is unnecessary4
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Re:i will win (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @05:29PM EST (#59)
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sound is unnecessary5
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Re:i will win (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @05:30PM EST (#60)
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sound is unnecessary6
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Re:i will win (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @05:30PM EST (#61)
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sound is unnecessary7
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Re:i will win (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @11:44PM EST (#104)
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bet you thought something else would be here
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Re:i will win (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @10:51PM EST (#100)
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you are a dumb ass and a waste of time. Your bullshit comments and all the bitching is unnecessary. If sound is unecessary, cut your fucking eardrums out and go death the rest of your life. Just because your daily activities on the computer does not call for sound doesn't mean that that's the same for everyone else. You must be one of those dumb asses that's still running like slackware 3.0 and will NEVER upgrade.
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Re:i will win (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @11:17PM EST (#102)
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hehe...I believe you meant to tell him to go deaF the rest of his life, for surely if he tried to go deaTH, his life would be very short.
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Re:i will win (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 10, @11:32PM EST (#103)
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:) yeah, I was trying to be ironic/sarcastic
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Posted by Hemos on Wednesday November 10, @03:38PM
XMMS Plugin Competition